Catriona talks to Nyala Moon about being raped by a man she was dating, who attempted to force her into sex work.
Nyala is a trans woman and she started transitioning when she was a teenager. She talks about how the prejudice that trans people often face stopped her from reporting the incident to the authorities, or even telling friends what had happened.
She also talks about a separate incident, when she was assaulted by an intimate partner, and why she used this narrative to produce a film about sexual abuse.
This first part contains details that many listeners may find distressing, so if you’re not in a place to listen to something like that right now, you can go to part two where Catriona talks to Nyala about how she’s doing now.
If you've been affected by sexual abuse or violence, you can find details of organisations in the UK who offer help and support at bbc.co.uk/actionline.
Nyala tells Catriona about how she struggled to understand her new body after fully transitioning, and the impact that had on coming to terms with her trauma.
She talks about what it was like to write a letter to her vagina for a book, titled Written on the Body: Letters from Trans and Non-Binary Survivors of Sexual Assault and Domestic Violence.
She also talks about how staying inside, eating bad food and watching anime series helps her feel better on those tougher days.
Part 1 - Then Transcript:
BBC sounds music, radio podcasts. Hey, I'm Catriona. And as you probably know, by now, I'm a survivor of sexual abuse and assault. But as anyone who knows me will tell you much more than just that. My favourite show is Tuca and Bertie. And I recently wrote a post about how sad I was the Netflix cancelled it. But then, the actor Tiffany haddish liked my post. So I'm pretty much famous now. I'm really lucky to have the friends and family that I do. But I still found it really tough to tell people what happened to me because I couldn't see any similar conversations. So I had an idea. I wanted to create a podcast where fellow survivors could tell me their stories, and hopefully listeners who might have similar experiences could relate and take something away from it. In this series, called after, I talked to guests about everything that happened to them when they became a survivor. But now Not just about what happened to them. Then we also talk about how they survived after. As ever, I've split each episode into two parts, so that if you don't feel able to hear details of sexual violence today, you can go straight to part two, where we talk about some of the ways that they've survived. Today, I'm talking to Nyala Moon, who was born and raised in New York, and as a film graduate, she has survived multiple instances of sexual assault. The one we primarily talk about happened when she was 19. at the hands of a man she'd been dating, who then attempted to force her into sex work. When his plan didn't work, he raped nyla. We also talk about a later experience when she was assaulted by a partner. This first part contains details that many listeners may find distressing. So if you're not in a place to listen to something like that right now, then don't worry. You can go straight to part two, where I talk to Nyala about how she's doing now. Nyala grew up in a really accepting family. So from a young age, she was able to be the girl she always wanted to be. So like when I was growing up, my mom would let me wear girl clothes and I would get Barbies. And I was really into like the little mermaid who is now black. Yeah. And so my mom was really, really open. So like, I didn't really have that revelation, you know, that like, come to Jesus moment where I was like, I am a woman. I kind of was like, given like a more open experience growing up gender wise. I feel like I've always been who I've been, you know, because of my mother and because of my family Harlem are really accepting and it's other queer people in my family, who have like, laid the framework for me. So like for me, on my mother's side of the family, where I was permanently raised when I was younger. I feel like I've always known I didn't have like that epiphany where I was just like, I don't want to wear boy clothes or anything. Like that. So I was very lucky in that respect and having my mother support me in that. And that being very solid in my identity early on. Yeah, that sounds extremely healthy and supportive and really lovely day. Yeah, yeah. So do you remember sort of the first time that you like noticed, like with boys and men and stuff, and that part of your life began, when I was in high school and middle school boys didn't really notice me outwardly, then, and I was kind of like a nerd too. So like, if they didn't notice me, I didn't notice them noticing me so like, I don't think it happened until I was around like 19 or 20. When I like when the hormones started really taking effect and like, my body started to like physically change where I couldn't hide it anymore. You know, like, fat redistribute, my breast started going, my face changed, you know? And I think around that age, I noticed guys noticing me and then when you were about 19, right, you met the Man who would later assault you. But when you first met him, it was quite exciting, wasn't it? Like you're you're quite happy when you first met him? Yeah, it was very exciting because like, in the trans community, especially when people identify you as trans, they don't openly like, quote you or like, show affection to you. So like, I was really surprised by it. I was a teenager. So I had like a very teenage response to it, you know, huh? You miss it. Yeah. You just felt like accepted. And, yeah. And so did you have any sort of funny feelings about him? Or did he seem pretty nice and pretty kind? He was probably, I mean, hindsight, probably nicer than maybe he should have, which is like, in my family, that's kind of a New Yorker thing. You're very like, mistrusting of like, super nice people. So like, for me, I think it just crossed lines of like, Oh, he's giving me attention. So like, any red flags that I had, like, kind of like washed over completely, you know, huh? So how long were you guys together then before he assaulted you? Um, I want to say it was a few months, we were together. So then would you mind as much as you want telling me about what happened on the night that he did assault you? So before then we would only, like, hang out in public, you know? And he was like, Hey, I'm gonna get this hotel. Back then that was kind of like the coolest, which is like, not cool, but it was kind of cool, because you're just like, Oh, I'm gonna get this like hotel with this guy, you know, and kind of everyone was doing it like in the queer trans black trans community, too. So I was like, Oh, my God, this is really exciting. So he invited me to the hotel and everything was great. We were eating McDonald's, we were hanging out, you know? And he was like, hey, do you want to make money? I didn't know what he meant at the moment. You know, like it didn't click in my head. So he left he made some phone calls and then he came back, though it was a knock at the door. And he opened the door and two guys came in. And he told the guys he was like, do you want her? You know, she's down. And I was like, What? And then he was like, No, no, it'll be fine. I'll be here, you know. And then he was like, it'll be quick, easy, we'll make money. And I didn't know what to do. Luckily, one of the guys, he asked me how old I was. I told him I was like, I'm like, 19. And then he was just like, No, you look like you're 16 years old. Which then I mean, 16 and 19. There's, that's not a huge jump in like, how much you change or how young you look. So I was just like, No, I'm 19. And he was like, No, no, you're 16 years old. And then he like left. And so his friend left with him. Because I guess it like split the moment. So the guy he was very, very, like mad about the situation. And I was kind of shocked that like this happened because I I didn't expect him to be like a pimp. I was so confused. I was like, What the hell is going on. So I wanted to To leave, and then he wouldn't let me leave. And then he proceeded to like, force himself on me and have sex with me. And then when he finally did fall asleep, he fell asleep with his arm on me. So I couldn't leave. And so I remember I stayed up after he fell asleep. And I just stayed up thinking like, wow, this is really, really crazy that I'm in the situation. And I like blame myself. And so morning came when it was time for us to check out. He grabbed my phone. And I remember begging him for my phone and I remember then he had his attitude had changed so swiftly, like he wasn't like, nice and sweet. Like he was he was just like, mean to me, and then he was just like, threatening me and threatening to prick my phone, and I guess he like took pity on me or whatever. And he gave me my phone and I remember I went home. And I was just so shocked and I blamed myself a lot for what has And yeah, I'm so sorry about what happened, there must have been absolutely terrifying experience. So what happened afterwards when you did manage to escape from him? When I got away from him, I was so scared to go back to my family's house, because like I had met him very close to where they lived. So I was very scared all the time that I was going to run into him. And for the longest time, I couldn't go back to like my family's house. And after that he kept texting me and apologising and saying that he wanted to see me again and he was so sorry. And he would treat me better. After that experience. I knew I knew what he wanted. So I just stayed away from him. And I just wouldn't reply to text messages. And when I would block his number, he would contact me with another number. And I didn't have money to change my phone, you know, like my number. I had to like, continuously block his number when He will try to reach out to me again. It was kind of a crazy situation because I was very, very scared of my safety. And I thought that I would run into him again and I didn't know what happened. Yeah, you must, there must have been terrifying, especially if you know, like you said he blocked his number, and he still kept getting through to you. And also, if you say you couldn't really go home or you were scared of being around your family home, like did you have anywhere that you could feel safe? Well, then I had an apartment I was sharing an apartment with I'm like, roommates. So like, I felt safe there. But like, I just couldn't go back. I stayed away for a long, long time, because I was just like, I thought I would run into him. Um, did you tell anyone what happened? Did you talk to your friends about it? No, I didn't talk to my friends about it because one, I thought it was my fault. And then to like, in the trans community, like you hear stories like this, and especially back then it's not it wasn't coded as you were a victim. You're a survivor. It was coded as what you could have done to not put yourself in a situation, which I always find myself having these arguments with people, because people think that like trans women are physically strong enough to defend themselves. But once you start taking hormones and you block testosterone for it, the first year, you lose that strength and that your body changes, and you don't have like the same physical strength that you would have if you weren't on it. But back then, that was kind of like unknown, you know, like people. It wasn't like, the science wasn't there yet. And people were just like, Oh, well, you're still a man. So you could have fought him off, you could have prevented this. So that kind of internalised transphobia. And transphobia was very heavy in the trans community. So a lot of times you you carry that, that's so damaging as well, because even if some women are really strong and probably stronger than their perpetrators like the way that your body responds, and psychologically you respond to assault and right, most people don't fight off their attackers because they're in shock exact like exactly where you are. You're in extreme shock. Cuz you just didn't know what was going on. So, like you're talking about internalised transphobia. And that you were just really unsure of yourself. Is that another reason you didn't go to the police? Yeah, that's that's a key point of part of it too. But also, trans women I have known have been attacked walking the streets of New York City, and there hasn't been any, like justice for that. So I knew that this scenario would not it wouldn't like they wouldn't take it seriously, because a lot of times when trans women face this violence, the cops are like you're a sex worker, what do you expect kind of mentality to so I think it was probably like 20% internalised transphobia, but then 80% that was the reality of it, like trans women are not given like, especially back then a voice or even or even believed enough to tell these stories, you know, so that must have been extremely difficult and for a few years, you sort of Didn't really confront what happened. But then you did. What did that look like? What did you do when you were coming to terms with what happened? It was right around the beginning of the me too movement. And I remember I was reading about me too, and I was reading about people talking about their stories. And I just posted me too on my Facebook, and all of my family like, messaged me right away. And then all of my friends messaged me too. And I remember I was telling one of my friends who was trans and she was shocked by the story because I had known her when it was going on, you know, we had been friends that long. And so when I said it, she told me her story. And then I remember I heard this video by by Gabrielle Union, which I've mentioned a lot, but it was very pivotal in like, like helping me like release the shame of it all because by then it was probably like six years later. When you're like a teenager, and you're a kid you don't think of yourself as a teenager or a kid. You know, you think of yourself as an adult and how you have control of everything and you know, like, what's going on? Yeah. Do you mean like, as a late teenager? Yeah. Cuz you were 19? Yeah, I kind of Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it that way before because I was one of my assaults when I was 18. And I always think I was an adult, but you're right, like, you're still a teenager. Your brain is still growing, you know, like, you just went to prom, like, you're like legally able to drink and you legally able not to be with your family, you're still a kid. And when I realised that I was still a kid, and when I realised also to that, like, I was a mark to him, it helped me get over it. And it helped me release whatever time I had around it. Because at first I was always like, oh, if I didn't go to the hotel room, oh, if I didn't do this, if I didn't do this if I didn't do this, but I had to be like, No, it's nothing I could have done like this situation. I hate to say it was destined. But it was destined because this guy was a predator and he preyed on me. And he preyed on my insecurity. I'm a trans woman, you know? I am like a not confident trans woman, then, you know, I'm young, so he knew that I was a prime prey, you know, to prey on. So once I realised that I released a lot of trauma, and how did you realise that? Did you realise that through therapy or through friends? Or was it just sort of internal reflection? It was internal reflection, and it was also the video of Gabrielle Union because she talked about it too. And she talked about how like, the guy preyed on her as well. So once I thought of it like that, I realised that you know, it wasn't it wasn't my fault. And I remember I had this like acting teacher to around that time and he was just like, you have to talk to yourself like a kid and not for yourself so harshly you know about things and be so critical. And once I started practising those things, I realised that it was not my fault and like, you know, like what the reality of the situation was. And on top of this particular incident, you were later assaulted by an ex boyfriend who tried to have sex with you whilst you were asleep. But you use this incident for a class project and films Didn't you? So, last year, we had a final film that we all had to make. And it was a film with minimal dialogue. So I wanted to tell a story about intimate partner violence or rape. And especially when like you wake up and your partner's having sex with you, and the experience that you go through, because you know, this is your partner, this is your loved one. And it's like, when I was telling my classmate about it, and she was like, Yeah, no, that's happened to me before too. So I was very excited about telling that story too, because I feel like it wasn't it's not something talked about a lot. And in the film, how I framed it is it happened where a girl wakes up and her partner's having sex with her. And then you go through her mind of like the emotions from like, denial to sadness to rage. And when it happened to me, my my boyfriend was like he instantly like started crying, immediately, like he was just like, completely like remorseful I ended up like trying to make him feel better about the situation, even though like I had, like, experienced it. So like, I wanted to go to that range of emotion too, because when I talk to other people, they're like experience of it was like anger and rage and you know, they lashed out against their partner aggressively. And then other people have talked about, you know, they just, like didn't say anything. So I want it to end the film with her not saying anything, you know, because I feel like, that's probably more of a commonality, you know, when things like that happen, because it's like, we come from a culture like, we're just, I'm your partner. So you know, like, I can have sex with you. And the like lines of consent are very blurred. I was very proud of the film and I thought it was a very great film, and I'm, I'm glad I made it to. So now she was able to turn something traumatic into something creative and helpful for others. But that's not all. She's achieved. Come back to us for part two, where she tells me about how she survived today with the help of her friends in the trans community. If you've been affected by sexual abuse or violence you can find details of organisations in the UK who offer help and support at BBC co.uk slash action line.
Part 2 - Now Transcript:
Hey, welcome to part two of this episode of after. I'm Catriona and in this series, I talk with fellow survivors of sexual abuse and assault and look at some of the ways that they've learned to cope. Today I'm talking to Nyala Moon, a New York Film graduate. Nyala has survived multiple cases of sexual assault, the first nine years ago at the hands of a man who tried to force her into sex work, and the second at the hands of a boyfriend. In part one, she told me about what happened to her and how the way trans people can be treated affected what she did after the assault. To hear more about that, go back to the feed to listen to her story. A quick heads up in this part, we talk honestly about sex and there's some strong language in there to 10 years ago Nyala fully transitioned. But it took her some time to understand her body and how to deal with the trauma of her past. I thought that like I was over the experience in my head, I was like, Oh my god, I almost got sexual trafficked. That is the that was the worst part of it. But I didn't really like focus on the physical trauma that was left to me and like on my body so like, and also just being trans too. For a long time I had a weird experience with like, men, I would never be into it I would be in my head about it because I was always bracing myself for like being sexually assaulted. So I was like, always very in my head when it came to sex and experiencing sex and enjoying sex. And I didn't realise I had that thing. You know, I thought it was kind of just like a normal thing. Like I'm just like, Why are you like holding his hand when he like touches you? You know, like, Why are you like, guarding yourself from like, experiencing like, pleasure and enjoying it and like, you know, trusting him to please you like, why do you have to have your hand in there? Why do you have to like, be like, making sure like, nothing's gonna happen. And I didn't connect the dots until like, maybe a few years ago when I was like, Oh, this is why that lack of control that you experience When you were sexually assaulted, this is why you want to have control of like, every sexual experience and micromanage it completely, which I still do to this day, but I tried to like go, but I just I'm still like, no, I need to like inspect everything. Make sure everything is right. Yeah, but it's hard because like you like you say it's sort of you realised that your body was trying to protect itself? Yeah. So when you are intimate with people now, I don't know if you have a partner or anything. But do you tell people about it now that this is why you might sometimes be uncomfortable and sort of over cautious insects. I remember one of my longtime partners, I told him, it was just like, I don't like to do this. So you need to like you need to just be okay with it. Recently, I've had like more of like a roadmap and I was like explaining like, this is like what I feel comfortable with. This is why I do this and you should you have to be okay with this. And he was definitely more accepting about it. He was empathetic to the situation. But before I wasn't open and honest about it. So I would always just be, I guess very like weird to them. They were like, why is your hand off my hand? Like what is going on? And I'd be like, I don't know, I just want my hand there. Oh, yeah. But what has the response been generally from men, you know, how have they reacted when you have told them or talk to them about what you've been through? It's been generally positive. I remember I had this one guy, he was just like, I just cannot deal with this. But it's basically been pretty, like good, you know, like, and sometimes I realise like, I don't have to tell them the whole story. I can give them tidbits of the story too, or I can just like give them whatever I want to give them whatever I'm ready to give them to because then I can share with people whenever I want to share with them however, I want to share with them too, because I feel like in the trans community, there's this weight of telling people, everything about you, you know, like, when you meet someone, people are just like, you need to tell people you are trans and they need to know your whole experience of being trans and that is your response to that. And if you don't you're you're you know, like you're a fucked up person or whatever. But like I've definitely learned to like unlearn that mentality too because it becomes something where like guys who are worth it, I tell you know guys who are not worth it I just didn't like okay, you know, I'm gonna hold your hand while you're doing certain stuff, you know you're gonna get over it. You shouldn't have to be forced to like reveal your wounds all the time. But so then when you do feel triggered and you know when you might have had a hard time after an experience Yeah, like with sex that you struggled with or if you're just having a bad day and you feel quite triggered generally. Is there anything that you do to feel better and to look after yourself? I think what I like to do because I'm a Gemini so I'm a very extroverted person. And then it's also like, introverted hermit. So when I'm like going through it as I like to say, I like to just stay home and I like to just like feel like shit. Listen to music, watch. TV, anime, you know? Anyway, sexy films. So I'm like, you're gonna watch anime or like reality shows, and then you're gonna just like feel like crap. And the next day, you're gonna, like, you're gonna be better and you're gonna get a new day. And you're gonna take it as that. Yeah. So you just like, let yourself Do whatever you want to do. And then the next day is Yeah, it's like, yeah, I try. I try to definitely have that. I mean, sometimes, like, I do that for two days. Like, you know, you feel like crap for two days, but this is what you're gonna do, or like the weekend, like, I'll just like, stay inside all weekend, watch TV, and I'll eat bad food, and I'll question my life. And I just like, sounds like a good weekend to me. So I also really wanted to talk to you after I watched you on the queer publication them. That's where I first saw you reading out your piece that is you reading a letter to your vagina, right? And you wrote it for an amazing book called return on the body. Could you tell me a bit more about the book and about what you wrote for it? And the letters. So written on the body is an anthology curated by Lexi Bean, who is a very amazing person and I love them to death. So finally, I wrote a letter to my vagina, Which kind of highlights like the trauma that I experienced, you know, through my sexual assault because I was like, pre op when it happened. And then I like became post op, and I thought, like, you know, it was it was a clean slate, and I wouldn't have this similar trauma, but the trauma like was still there. And even though I had experienced this thing of getting bottom surgery, which is an amazing thing for trans people who want it, I still like had the same shame you know, about my body and like, I did not like my vagina legit for like, the first two years of getting like bottom surgery. I was like, oh my god. First it was a painful experience. But to was like the sexual trauma that I experienced and like I felt even weaker in vulnerable post bottom surgery, you know, sexual assault, you wanted it to feel like the most real And so it must have been really frustrating if you were still so uncomfortable and traumatised. Yeah, definitely. Because like it happened, you know, I've moved on, but I didn't realise that like, This experience has scarred my soul in it in a way, you know, like the way trauma does it, like it leaves like a scar on you, you know who you are. And it's regardless of like, what body parts you had when you were experiencing the trauma to what body parts you have now, like, it's just there. And app I contributed to the book, I was like, This is gonna be in the world, you know, like, I want to just be known as an artist and not this, like I don't want this to like hinder my experience. But then we went on a book tour, and I started talking to like other queer people about this. And for me, talking to people and talking to survivors, and seeing them liberate it, it liberated me even though was a very daunting experience hearing them become liberated and hearing them like feeling like connected with someone who's experienced something similar it like made me feel very good. People will be able to have this and read this, you know, and see my contribution to this and like see how I tried to make them feel like they were seen and known? Hmm, that's amazing. So if you could give advice to a survivor, maybe even specifically a trans woman who survived something like this, what would it be? So like anything to make them feel good to get them through to like, help them get to the next day? do that because you are important. Your experience is important, and also to to talk to themselves or treat themselves like kids. Yeah, what we were saying earlier about parenting your inner child. Yes, definitely parenting your inner child because like a lot of times are so hyper critical of ourselves. And we put so much shame and blame on ourselves that We think that we are like superhuman, and we could have avoided this and we could have, like, sidestepped it. You know, like if we would have just moved over, we could have just avoided it completely. And sometimes, you know, life doesn't work that way. So like, go easy on yourself. Yeah, thank you so much like you are amazing. And you've talked about everything so beautifully. And yeah, good luck with becoming a filmmaker. I believe you can do it, I'll watch all your films. I'll be your number one fan in the UK. (Nyala laughs). I absolutely love talking to Nyala. And I was so grateful that she trusted me with her story. It's incredibly important that we have open conversations about the way some people in society, like trans women are more often affected by sexual violence. I also just liked hearing how she looks after herself and as we said a few times parents are no child. Like me, she's a bit of a nerd about some things. So it made me really happy to hear her so excited about something like anime. If you've been affected by sexual abuse or violence, then you can find details of organisations in the UK who offer help and support at BBC co.uk slash action line. After it's produced by Danielle Stevens, and the executive producers are Claire Chadburn and Nick Mintor.